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The Dutch historian and author Rutger Bregman has been celebrated as something of a popular hero by many left since his appearance at the World Economic Forum in Davos in January. Bregman told a room full of wealthy and powerful people they had to pay more in taxes, and his speech went viral. It also appeared to be the attention of some on the right as well.
On February 11, Bregman tweeted that he had made an interview for Tucker Carlson's Fox Show and that it was not exactly accurate. According to Bregman, Carlson himself had sent him after the loss to tell him. "I loved what you said in Davos so I had great hopes for our interview," wrote Carlson in what appeared to be a screen of the email. "But you showed yourself to be far more stupid, far more dogmatic and less impressive than expected. You are a professional academic, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but it was still disappointing. an asshole. "
Next day, Bregman tweeted at Carlson to ask why his show had not sent the segment.
It wasn't quite clear what had happened until Wednesday, when NowThis published a recording of that interview. In the interview, things start friendly with Carlson, who introduced Bregman by saying he would "take [his hat]" to him over his respect for his comments on Davos. "Are you the first person to ever notice people flying privately to talk about global warming and none of them mention tax evasion?"
"It's a little hypocritical, isn't it?" Bergman said.
Tucker laughed. "Yes it is, and others have noticed it. We have noted this on our show."
But Bergman didn't let things stay chummy for a long time:
You know, the vast majority of Americans for years and years now, according to the polls, including Fox News viewers and including Republicans, are in favor of higher taxes on the rich. Higher inheritance taxes, higher top margin taxes, higher wealth taxes, that is quite common. But nobody says that in Davos, just as no one says it on Fox News, right? And I think that the explanation for it is quite simple is that most of Davo's people, but also here on this channel, have been bought by the billionaire class. You know? You're not supposed to say these things. So I just went there and I thought you know what I just want to say, just like I say it right here on this channel.
Carlson, who attempted to steer the subject back to tax avoidance, commented that "it would be interesting to know how many hours Fox you have seen." In the exchange that followed, Bregman acknowledged that tax evasion was a major problem, but claimed that tax collection would help the US economy.
America is still pretty much the most powerful country in the world, right? So if it really did, it could easily ruin the tax havens. But the thing is, you have brought into force a president who will not even share his own returns. I mean, who knows how many billions he has saved in the Cayman Islands or in Bermuda. So I think the question is really one of corruption and that people are being overthrown and not talking about the real problems. What the family – what the Murdoches in principle want you to do is to sin immigrants instead of talking about tax evasion.
Carlson was not satisfied with the answer. "And I take orders from Murdoch's, that's what you say?"
"No, it doesn't mean it doesn't work directly." Bregman replied. "But I think you've been part of the Cato Institute, right? You've been a senior guy there for years."
"Well, how does it work?"
"Well, it works if you take [the Koch brothers’] dirty money. It's as easy as that. I mean, you are a millionaire funded by billionaires, that's what you are. And I'm glad that You finally jumped the car of people like Bernie Sanders and AOC, but you're not part of the solution, Mr. Carlson. You're actually part of the problem … All anchors, all anchors of Fox "
"You should be a moron you should be"
"They are all millionaires," Bregman said. "How is it possible? Well, it's very easy, you're just not talking about certain things."
Carlson then took a separate protest point: "Not even, Fox doesn't even play where you are … You've never seen Fox before."
"I actually do. I can't say I'm a big fan of your show, but I do my homework when you invite me to your show. So I mean, you probably won't fly here. … But you're a millionaire funded millionaire, and that's why you aren't talking about these issues. "
"But I'm talking about these issues."
"Yes, only now. Come on, you ran the cart. You're like, oh, I'm against the globalist elite, blah blah. … It's not very convincing to be honest."
"I want to tell you why you're not yourself, your little brain – and I hope it gets picked up because you're a moron. I was trying to hear you, but you were too worried about me that"
Bregman cut him off. "You can't handle the criticism, can you?"